I don’t think I’ll ever understand it, which is a need that’s hardwired in to me. Some others have the grace and patience needed. Not me. I expect a lot from a supreme being. But I’ll never get it. I’ll just get along as best I can. If a god is going to toss me into hell fire for not following the “right” formula, so be it. I’d rather rot in hell than follow someone who I believe won’t reward my caring for my fellow humans, and who will disregard a life well lived.
Years ago I lost half of my family in a car accident. I spent a significant amount of time reading & studying the book of Job. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that God was in charge & I would never understand the reason for the accident in this life. I went through all the “what ifs” & still think about them from time to time. Without my faith I don’t think I could have gotten through those days. I was never closer to God. As I’ve gotten further from the accident, I’ve come to rely more on myself than God. I’ve tried to correct that as I go through my day to day life. It’s difficult to do. Unfortunately my surviving teenage kids have fallen away from the church because of the accident. Another question for God when I see him.
Much good comes from evil! God allows Satan to test. Paw in the valley, exult your strength, laugh at fear, never turn back from the sword! Thanks Matt!
This is a tricky one, that for me depends not just on whether one believes in God, but on one's conception of God and the Bible. For someone who believes the Bible reflects the word of God, the Job story can be extremely challenging, as noted by the Rickie Lee Jones guy. Matt's noble effort to offer an approach to the story didn't resonate with me, but I'm coming from a different perspective anyway. For me, God is an internal presence, and I don't treat the Bible as the literal word of an external God. Instead, when I read a Bible story I ask what are the authors trying to accomplish here. A big part of the Bible is an attempt to help make sense of an often chaotic world. You can preach and preach to people the virtues of good behavior, but at some point these folks will start noticing bad things often happen to good people, and vice-versa. Which creates a need for stories and prayers that acknowledge the unpredictability of life, some of which are part of the upcoming High Holidays for some of us. I see the Job story in that context, an effort to reinforce that there is still value in living a good life, even with the possibility that things may go bad for you for reasons unknown.
Until I started meditation (then slowly left it behind for a woman - of course. She is now my spouse.) I never knew how powerful silence could be. It cuts both ways. Eventually one learns to embrace self and "reality" with more authenticity and less anxiety. This is not an easy task, mind you. I think the human mind buries tough memories. Meditation can exhume them. But if it can slow down the myriad expectations and guilt we all carry to some degree, we become less judgemental, realizing that we're all in a similar boat. I think meditation is best for moving garbage out rather than adding pearls of wisdom. But, facing oneself is provocative. I also think that meditation and belief in redemption/salvation CAN work very well together. But frankly speaking, religion really gets in the way.
What gets me is how many people claim to speak for God. Talk about hubris. Also, whatever happens is God's will. You're killed in a head-on collision by a drunk driver driving on your side of the road. Sorry, God had nothing to do with that. Don't get me started on the lavish lifestyles that some of the super successful preachers enjoy. Not exactly emulating how Jesus lived.
those signals are welcome if we are not meeting the subject of our judgment. otherwise they cloud'our thinking. i'll concede i'm no better at that ledge of perfection and more times than most jump to baseless conclusions that make first contacts problematic.
I have a contrary idea, let's pretend there is not a god. How would you live differently? For starters, that inanity at the beginning of the Declaration of Independence could be chucked on the rubIsh pile of lousy history. All Created Equal, in a pigs eye. There is plenty more where that comes from.
I like this response. I would let it go apart from the fact that the Declaration has been used since its inception as a rallying cry to self determination from that sentence. Conservatives are particularly bad at this association but I have heard Liberals enthusiastically quote it as well. The Declaration was a note to King George in which it was stated that we (the citizens of the US) were equal in all ways to the citizens of England and therefore. . . Unfortunately, we do not see it in its historical context any longer unless we happen to be students of history.
I’d like to BRIEFLY, rebuke and , well , perhaps explain the point ( at least according to my interpretation) of the Book of Job to your friend Chuck D , I’ll be succinct as possible. So, basically, life isn’t fair , you may be dealt a massively cruel hand , nevertheless, no matter what , God is God and God and all his works are GREAT and eternally Mysterious , only he knows exactly why things are the way they are , Satan be dammed. Nuff said . Thanks and God Bless
I’m actually a much bigger fan of the role of grace in salvation, but this seems appropriate for the conversation today-
Man: “Life’s not fair”
God: “Lucky* for you”
(As a Presbyterian, I am duty-bound to disavow the idea that luck actually exists. Also, as tempting as it would to throw the predestination cherry bomb into this here comments section, I’ll spare all of us that entertainment).
Perfectly said Matt….
I don’t think I’ll ever understand it, which is a need that’s hardwired in to me. Some others have the grace and patience needed. Not me. I expect a lot from a supreme being. But I’ll never get it. I’ll just get along as best I can. If a god is going to toss me into hell fire for not following the “right” formula, so be it. I’d rather rot in hell than follow someone who I believe won’t reward my caring for my fellow humans, and who will disregard a life well lived.
Years ago I lost half of my family in a car accident. I spent a significant amount of time reading & studying the book of Job. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that God was in charge & I would never understand the reason for the accident in this life. I went through all the “what ifs” & still think about them from time to time. Without my faith I don’t think I could have gotten through those days. I was never closer to God. As I’ve gotten further from the accident, I’ve come to rely more on myself than God. I’ve tried to correct that as I go through my day to day life. It’s difficult to do. Unfortunately my surviving teenage kids have fallen away from the church because of the accident. Another question for God when I see him.
What BS -- sad
Thanks for the cogent analysis. Could've gotten that from bathroom stall graffiti.
.
You're welcome -- you didn't even need to mask up or wash your hands
(Mistaking a pithy opinion for an analysis -- sad)
.
Much good comes from evil! God allows Satan to test. Paw in the valley, exult your strength, laugh at fear, never turn back from the sword! Thanks Matt!
Pascal’s Wager says it all! Place your bet!
This is a tricky one, that for me depends not just on whether one believes in God, but on one's conception of God and the Bible. For someone who believes the Bible reflects the word of God, the Job story can be extremely challenging, as noted by the Rickie Lee Jones guy. Matt's noble effort to offer an approach to the story didn't resonate with me, but I'm coming from a different perspective anyway. For me, God is an internal presence, and I don't treat the Bible as the literal word of an external God. Instead, when I read a Bible story I ask what are the authors trying to accomplish here. A big part of the Bible is an attempt to help make sense of an often chaotic world. You can preach and preach to people the virtues of good behavior, but at some point these folks will start noticing bad things often happen to good people, and vice-versa. Which creates a need for stories and prayers that acknowledge the unpredictability of life, some of which are part of the upcoming High Holidays for some of us. I see the Job story in that context, an effort to reinforce that there is still value in living a good life, even with the possibility that things may go bad for you for reasons unknown.
Until I started meditation (then slowly left it behind for a woman - of course. She is now my spouse.) I never knew how powerful silence could be. It cuts both ways. Eventually one learns to embrace self and "reality" with more authenticity and less anxiety. This is not an easy task, mind you. I think the human mind buries tough memories. Meditation can exhume them. But if it can slow down the myriad expectations and guilt we all carry to some degree, we become less judgemental, realizing that we're all in a similar boat. I think meditation is best for moving garbage out rather than adding pearls of wisdom. But, facing oneself is provocative. I also think that meditation and belief in redemption/salvation CAN work very well together. But frankly speaking, religion really gets in the way.
What gets me is how many people claim to speak for God. Talk about hubris. Also, whatever happens is God's will. You're killed in a head-on collision by a drunk driver driving on your side of the road. Sorry, God had nothing to do with that. Don't get me started on the lavish lifestyles that some of the super successful preachers enjoy. Not exactly emulating how Jesus lived.
those signals are welcome if we are not meeting the subject of our judgment. otherwise they cloud'our thinking. i'll concede i'm no better at that ledge of perfection and more times than most jump to baseless conclusions that make first contacts problematic.
I have a contrary idea, let's pretend there is not a god. How would you live differently? For starters, that inanity at the beginning of the Declaration of Independence could be chucked on the rubIsh pile of lousy history. All Created Equal, in a pigs eye. There is plenty more where that comes from.
I like this response. I would let it go apart from the fact that the Declaration has been used since its inception as a rallying cry to self determination from that sentence. Conservatives are particularly bad at this association but I have heard Liberals enthusiastically quote it as well. The Declaration was a note to King George in which it was stated that we (the citizens of the US) were equal in all ways to the citizens of England and therefore. . . Unfortunately, we do not see it in its historical context any longer unless we happen to be students of history.
Thanks for the comment.
Hi Matt
I’d like to BRIEFLY, rebuke and , well , perhaps explain the point ( at least according to my interpretation) of the Book of Job to your friend Chuck D , I’ll be succinct as possible. So, basically, life isn’t fair , you may be dealt a massively cruel hand , nevertheless, no matter what , God is God and God and all his works are GREAT and eternally Mysterious , only he knows exactly why things are the way they are , Satan be dammed. Nuff said . Thanks and God Bless
Iron Sharpens Iron, see ya when you get there!
Sometimes. But then we can only act on the best information that we have at the time. Beats the worst intentions ;-)
I’m actually a much bigger fan of the role of grace in salvation, but this seems appropriate for the conversation today-
Man: “Life’s not fair”
God: “Lucky* for you”
(As a Presbyterian, I am duty-bound to disavow the idea that luck actually exists. Also, as tempting as it would to throw the predestination cherry bomb into this here comments section, I’ll spare all of us that entertainment).
Nice. Props!
Holy crap!